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Hello, and welcome to yet another episode of SuperLawyer YouTube channel. Today, we have with us esteemed advocate, Jose Abraham, who is Advocate on Record as well. And we are excited to hear his journey, who has authored five books alongside his booming practice and the kind of the connections he has built and the way he represents his clients. Thank you so much for joining us here. Hope you’ll enjoy the interview. Sir, let’s start with the very, very first question and an interesting one I would say that we want to hear your story from your school days till now, the kind of learnings, the kind of pivotal moments that you have gone through in the making of the Advocate on record and the author of five books, Jose Abraham, sir please.
First of all, Namaskaram to all the viewers of SuperLawyer, and I would like to sincerely thank SuperLawyer for giving me this wonderful opportunity to interact with all of you. The first question is about my journey, from my school days to today.
I am originally from a remote village in Kerala called Madampam, which is in the Kannur district. It’s a very remote area, and I attended a government school, which was a Malayalam-medium school. The reason I am mentioning this is because, nowadays, people might assume that one needs to come from an elite background or have a convent school education to succeed. So, I want to be honest and share my true background, as it might resonate with some of you and be of help.
Coming from a remote area and attending a regular school, I am also a first-generation lawyer. During my school years, I developed an interest in reading books and newspapers, which made me aware of the significant role played by the judiciary and the legal profession. This became my motivation, and by the time I was in the 9th and 10th standards, my aim was very clear: I wanted to enter the legal profession.
For my 11th and 12th grades, I chose humanities, and later pursued my law degree from Government Law College, Kozhikode, which is also in the northern part of Kerala. During my final years of law school, I considered preparing for the civil services. With that ambition, I moved to Delhi.
However, after a month of civil services coaching, I had a realization. I felt that if a lawyer has the potential to be a civil servant, then a lawyer can contribute even more effectively than a civil servant. This realization came to me very quickly, and I decided to focus on my legal career.
I began practicing at the Supreme Court, but I didn’t limit myself to just the Supreme Court. The office I joined handled cases from trial courts, high courts, and various tribunals in Delhi, which is a hub of legal opportunities. I took on cases in all these forums and even handled small matters, such as paying fines for traffic challans. These are cases where a lawyer might not even be necessary, but that’s how I started my journey.
Wow, sir! You knew your passion from childhood. It’s rare to meet someone who decides at such a young age what they want to become and actually achieves it. You’ve been an Advocate-On-Record for over 16 years now. How has the legal landscape in India evolved during this time, and what new challenges have you or your colleagues faced? With the rapid advancements in technology and the constant introduction of new laws, we’d love to hear your thoughts on these changes and how they have impacted the legal profession.
I would like to divide these 16 years of my practice into two periods: pre-COVID and post-COVID, because COVID has changed everything, including our legal profession. Yes, pre-COVID, there were challenges at that time as well. But after COVID, the whole system has changed. Of course, challenges remain, but I prefer to look at it from a positive perspective. New doors have opened for the legal fraternity.
Now, a lawyer sitting in a remote place like Rajasthan can attend matters in the trial court, the High Court, and even the Supreme Court, all thanks to COVID and advancements in technology. Nowadays, lawyers can manage multiple cases simultaneously, sitting in their chambers with several devices in front of them. That’s one of the greatest advantages COVID and technology have brought to us. It’s one of the most positive changes I’d like to highlight.
I also recognize that many law students or newly practicing lawyers might be listening. Virtual streaming is now available, and all courts are on YouTube or other specific platforms. I would like to request all young lawyers and law students: whenever you have time, please watch court proceedings. You can learn a lot by simply observing how things work.
During my initial days, we would go to court just to see how senior lawyers like Nariman Sir, Arjun Sir, and other legal luminaries addressed the court, persuaded judges, and secured favorable orders. Back then, to witness these events, we had to be present in the Supreme Court, and it was rare to see them in High Courts. Today, however, everyone can watch how the Supreme Court’s constitutional bench handles matters. You can see the top lawyers arguing various cases.
COVID has, in fact, given us many opportunities along with advancements in technology. There are numerous platforms now. For instance, SuperLawyer, which I believe is a more recent creation, is a result of technology. We are getting more opportunities, more platforms where we can interact and gain a wealth of knowledge. That’s what the present era offers us.
Sir, beautifully said. The SuperLawyer YouTube channel is a relatively recent addition, but SuperLawyer written interviews have been conducted for over a decade now. This has actually helped us transition to more video interviews, as people often feel more comfortable speaking on camera rather than writing their responses. So, it has been beneficial for us as well.
With that in mind, sir, I would first like to ask: how do you find the time to write such amazing books? One book, in particular, I’d like to discuss is Indians and Immigration Laws: Concerns and Remedies, which addresses the critical issue of migration in Indian society and explores the legal framework surrounding it. Could you elaborate on your thought process while writing this book and perhaps share some insights into the cases you’ve encountered related to Indian migration laws?
Yes, as a first-generation lawyer, to establish a successful practice, we need to do multiple things. One of these things is writing books, as it gives the impression that we may be an authority on a particular subject. That’s why many choose to author books. This helps us gain recognition within the legal fraternity.
I would advise participants and viewers to start writing whenever possible. You can begin by publishing articles in newspapers or journals—there are many available now. Take advantage of these opportunities as they can give you an edge and increase your visibility. Writing, especially authoring books, is one of the best ways to present yourself to your fraternity and potential clientele. It is essential for establishing a solid practice.
The first book I authored is on immigration. Immigration law may be a well-developed area in most developed countries, but in India, unfortunately, it is still underdeveloped. Very few lawyers focus on this area. I realized that this was an untapped field, so I decided to concentrate on it and write a book about it.
A large number of Indians migrate to foreign countries for jobs or studies, and this is covered under the Indian Immigration Act of 1983. There are laws and systems in place governing immigration, but the common person may not be aware of how the entire process works. I authored this book as a way to educate and empower ordinary people migrating abroad, particularly migrant laborers and domestic workers heading to the Middle East. Many of them face exploitation on multiple levels, such as fraudulent recruitment agencies, high fees, human trafficking, and bonded labor.
I wrote this book to help NGOs and society as a whole, particularly those working in the field of migration. It also addresses the broader issues surrounding the migration process. Many cases are now emerging in courts related to recruitment fraud and other issues. When something happens to an Indian citizen abroad, it is often the responsibility of the Indian Embassy to intervene and provide legal support. The high courts can also entertain petitions regarding the kind of legal assistance Indian missions and embassies are supposed to provide if they fail to do so.
What a beautiful area and as you rightly said that there are very few who are practicing this particular immigration laws in India. Outside India, especially developed countries, they have developed their own immigration system, which is more prominent.
Sir, given all of this and your connection with NGOs and you being the global president of Pravasi Legal Cell, what inspired you to establish this particular NGO? And what unique legal issues do you actually encounter while dealing with the cases that are related to NRIs?
In 2009, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to establish an NGO, Pravasi Legal Cell, aimed at providing legal assistance. I came to Delhi in 2007 to start my practice, and despite India being one country, the vast differences in languages and cultures across states made my initial years challenging, particularly as I am from the southern part of India. These early struggles inspired me to create an NGO that would offer pro bono legal aid to migrants, who often face similar challenges.
That’s how Pravasi Legal Cell was founded. Initially, we focused on providing legal support to migrants in Delhi. At the time, a significant portion of these migrants were nurses from Kerala, who were subject to severe exploitation. There was a bond system in the nursing field that was prevalent between 2009 and 2011. Even though the Constitution abolishes bonded labor and specific legislation exists to prevent it, the bond system persisted in the nursing sector. Nurses, after completing their education and joining a hospital, were forced to sign a bond that required them to work for the hospital for three to five years. If they broke the bond, they had to pay a hefty compensation, sometimes as high as five to seven lakhs.
In 2009, I filed a Public Interest Litigation (PIL) on behalf of one of these nurses. The Honorable Delhi High Court ruled that such bonded labor practices were not permissible in the nursing profession. The court directed the Nursing Council to issue proper guidelines and circulars to address this issue. Later, we filed another PIL in the Supreme Court, which led to a national resolution of the matter.
This case was one of the first significant issues Pravasi Legal Cell tackled. Afterward, we gradually expanded our reach to other countries. We started with the Middle East and now have offices in almost all major countries in the Middle East, Europe, and the U.S. Pravasi Legal Cell has established chapters worldwide, and our primary objective is to provide legal aid to those in need and to advocate for policy changes related to immigration.
What an accomplishment, sir! It’s truly amazing to hear about the changes you’ve brought forward. The kind of discrimination that was prevalent and the way you’ve addressed it is remarkable. I sincerely hope we have more dedicated individuals like you in this field, and that many more will follow. These changes are not only necessary but crucial for ensuring that India becomes one of the best countries on the global stage, both for work and immigration. This is something we constantly face, and addressing it is vital.
Sir, considering you’re also an avid writer, how do you view the intersection of education and law, particularly the teaching aspect? As the Chairman of Paideia Institute in Delhi, how do you feel legal education in India has improved? Is it paving the way for a better future, and how are we working to make it even more competitive on an international level?
What are your thoughts on ensuring that our legal education system becomes even more globally compatible than it was before?
Yes, I have seen a lot of changes and improvements in the legal education system over the last decade, especially with the establishment of national law schools in multiple locations. This has significantly enhanced the quality of legal education in India. During my own law graduation, a systematic education was lacking. There were many law colleges that existed only on paper, and by spending some money, anyone could obtain a law degree. I had heard about many such instances at that time.
However, as you rightly pointed out, the system has changed. Now, we can see a more structured approach to legal studies. Students who approach us for internships today are highly qualified. The standard of legal education has improved dramatically, thanks to various authorities, including the Bar Council of India and the State Bar Councils. Additionally, multiple orders from the Supreme Court have helped streamline legal education. Now, like IITs and IIMs, law schools are also offering campus placements, and bright students can secure high-paying jobs straight out of college.
This is a very encouraging scenario. I am also heading an institute called Paidiea Institute, where we provide extensive training focused on capacity building, particularly in areas like POCSO, POSH, and RTI. RTI is one area where we have done a lot of work in spreading awareness about the Right to Information Act. In fact, we filed a PIL before the Supreme Court last year, which led to an order directing all High Courts and state governments to establish online RTI portals. Now, citizens can file RTI applications online, making the process more accessible.
Paidiea Institute aims to provide training and capacity building to empower ordinary citizens.
What has your experience been like while practicing in the Supreme Court, the High Court of Kerala, and other High Courts? What differences have you observed in the legal processes? And what are the challenges between these two levels of the judiciary? There seems to be a misconception among people who don’t fully understand the legal system. They often feel scared or think the case could have been resolved earlier, without moving to the Supreme Court. It’s difficult to explain to clients why a case had to escalate to the Supreme Court. How do you handle such questions, and how do you ensure your clients are satisfied with the solutions you find for them?
In our legal system, we have multiple jurisdictions. At the district level, we have trial courts, at the state level, we have High Courts, and at the top, we have the Supreme Court. The skill set required to practice in these courts can differ significantly. For example, the skills needed in a trial court are different from those required in a High Court, and at the Supreme Court, it’s even more refined.
In the Supreme Court, especially on an admission day, the court may hear around 80 to 90 petitions in just three to four hours. A lawyer only gets two or three minutes to present a case, and within that time, the court decides whether to admit the case. This requires a very specific skill set to handle such cases at the admission level.
However, in a High Court, especially in its original jurisdiction, the process is not as fast-paced, and there is more room to present the case. So, yes, different courts require different skill sets. You also mentioned clients who question why a case wasn’t resolved at the first level itself, or why it had to move to the appellate level.
As lawyers, we can only do our part, but for various reasons, justice may not be achieved at the first instance. That’s why we have a robust legal system with appellate jurisdictions. If there has been a misunderstanding or misapplication of the law, we can seek correction from a higher court. This is the beauty of our legal system.
Yes, different platforms may require different skill sets, but my personal opinion is that it’s crucial to gain experience at the trial court level. The trial is the heart and soul of litigation, the foundation. If a lawyer can gain trial court experience early in their career, they will have a better understanding of the legal system—how to draft a plaint, how to file a complaint, how to conduct examinations and cross-examinations.
This trial experience makes the transition to practicing in the High Court or even the Supreme Court much easier. I’ve seen some very talented colleagues in the Supreme Court, but because they lack trial experience, they sometimes feel a sense of incompleteness. On the other hand, a lawyer who has trial court experience often carries a higher level of confidence. That has been my experience.
There are many aspirants for the AOR exam, but they often don’t know the right approach to prepare or understand the importance of being an Advocate on Record. We would request you to share some of the key details about the kind of preparation one should do, the resources they can use, and the strategies you followed that helped you become an Advocate on Record at such an early stage in your career.
An Advocate on Record (AOR) is a designation given by the Supreme Court, allowing the advocate to file matters before the Supreme Court. This designation is an added advantage for getting cases in the Supreme Court. Yes, clearing the AOR examination requires significant preparation and effort. The passing percentage is around 10 to 15%, which shows that it requires thorough preparation to succeed.
Most of the questions or syllabus for the AOR examination are related to the practical aspects of drafting, practice, procedure, and leading cases. These can be mastered through at least one year of practice in the Supreme Court, which will equip you with the skills needed to draft Special Leave Petitions (SLPs), Article 32 petitions, and transfer petitions before the Supreme Court.
The key to passing the AOR exam is developing practical skills rather than relying solely on theoretical knowledge. Understanding leading cases is also crucial, as it equips you to draft well-supported petitions with settled laws or authoritative pronouncements of the Supreme Court.
Additionally, knowledge of practice and procedure will inform you on when to file or approach the Supreme Court and how it handles matters under Article 136, Article 32 petitions, or even original jurisdiction cases. The Supreme Court can sometimes entertain original suits directly. These are all practical aspects of litigation in the Supreme Court.
A year of sincere preparation will certainly help in clearing the AOR examination. The Supreme Court’s website provides access to previous question papers, materials, and the syllabus for the exam. There is a dedicated AOR section with a separate link where all this information can be accessed. I believe even interviews and other helpful resources may be available on other websites or in similar repositories of information.
Now, I would like to move on and talk about work-life balance, which is such an important topic nowadays, especially when it comes to mental and physical health. How do you balance all of this with the kind of busy schedule you have with your cases? Is it just about hobbies and interests outside of law, or how do you make sure to carve out time for your family as well? I believe that’s one of the most important things, and we’d love to hear your perspective on it. Additionally, I’d like to ask about your views on mental health, especially for lawyers, as we are definitely under a lot of pressure.
That’s a very interesting and relevant question. A balanced life is essential for any professional. Of course, all of us aim to be successful lawyers, but at the same time, we should also strive to be successful fathers, sons, and brothers. A balanced life enables success in all areas—personal, professional, and community life.
You see, there are many “super lawyers” with wonderful practices, but some struggle to maintain their family relationships because they can’t make time for their loved ones. There are also lawyers who, by the time they reach 40 or 45, may have impressive careers but are physically weak due to neglecting their health. So yes, Divyaji, your question is very important. We must learn to balance our personal, private, and professional lives. Only then can we truly achieve success. There’s no point in sacrificing one for the other.
Regarding mental health, it is indeed a growing concern, even for young children. The COVID pandemic gave us opportunities but also challenges, especially with technology. The increase in screen time has reduced personal interactions, whether with family or friends. While technology has its advantages, we must use it wisely to maintain a balanced and successful life. A content and happy life, in essence.
Beautifully said, sir. Yes, screen time has definitely increased, and there are many perspectives we need to keep in check as the world, and India, continues to evolve. As a successful advocate, what advice would you give to first-generation lawyers who are just starting their practice? What kind of challenges do you think independent litigators face, and how can young lawyers stay motivated? Because often, we have a tendency to give up too early. You didn’t give up and made a name for yourself. Could you share your insights on that?
Divyaji, it’s always a bit uncomfortable to talk about oneself. And I don’t claim to be a “successful” lawyer, but as a student of law and someone who has been in this profession for 17 years, I can offer a few observations.
To succeed in this noble profession, certain skill sets are essential, and those can be developed through a committed and dedicated lifestyle. If you are sincere in your profession, it will reward you. Don’t worry if you’re a first-generation lawyer or come from a humble background. These factors don’t matter. A lot of young lawyers come from families with judges or senior lawyers, which may help them in the initial stages, but even for them, this profession requires continuous dedication, hard work, and commitment.
This is a wonderful profession. Every day brings new challenges—new cases, new judges, new legal issues. The legal system is constantly evolving, so we must update ourselves regularly. Being a successful lawyer requires a unique set of skills, including excellent communication, both in drafting and oral arguments. It’s important to learn how to draft effectively and argue convincingly.
Maintaining a good relationship with your clients is another key skill. There will be a lot of pressures—financial, familial, and emotional—but you must be able to manage these while staying focused. This profession, which deals with human issues like family matters and disputes, not only shapes us into successful professionals but also helps us become better human beings. That’s one of the most fulfilling aspects of being a lawyer.
Thank you, Divyaji, for giving me this opportunity to share my thoughts. You’ve asked all the right questions in such a way that I felt comfortable sharing my experiences. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for your humility and for agreeing to join us, sir. On behalf of the SuperLawyer team, Namrata, and myself, we sincerely thank you. You’ve shared your story so beautifully, even though we often hesitate to talk about our personal lives and motivations. I believe that those watching this video will learn so much from you—how to better themselves in life and in this profession. Once again, thank you for your time.
Thank you very much, Divyaji, for giving me this opportunity. You are doing such important work by supporting young professionals. Please keep it up. You’ll always have my support, and best wishes to all the participants. Thanks again.
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